Wednesday, January 10, 2007

Now THAT'S a Skan-DAL!

What did I learn tonight after coming up for air for what I thought would be my final curtain call?

I learned that Renegade Rebbetzin would have been advised to stay "no, thank you, Dovie."

I also learned that DovBear loves the folks at TNR and the folks that write letters to TNR. Loves them so much that he often adopts their writing as his own.

After my previous post, I received an email from another well respected Jewish blogger who stated that he noticed that his RSS reader was showing certain old DovBear post as new posts. A clear sign that he was editing old posts. This screen shot shows a post that was subsequently edited to include a reference to its source, you got it, TNR letters to the editor. While on the surface this may not look like a big deal, keep in mind the following:

1. DovBear corrected each of the posts I identified with a note indicating the date of the update, in an attempt to make it clear that the attribution was added recently. This post (and perhaps many, many others), which I missed, he simply updated without any indication that it was updated. Clearly, DovBear is trying to minimize the visibility of the extent of his sins.

2. At the same time, DovBear's defenders and detractors -- including me -- have been arguing about how many posts were plagiarized: 10, 12, 14. All this while, DovBear knew these numbers to be false. The number was in fact higher. Yet DovBear did nothing to correct us. Still today DovBear has not revealed the extent of his plagiarism.

3. The corrected post still does not complelty attribute the source. Although a link was added to the second paragraph, the first paragraph (beginning with the words "The bottom line") comes from another TNR letter from the very same webpage (the first letter).

And, now, the kicker. It turns out that Renegade Rebbetzin's "Seal of Approval" is about as good as a hashgacha on a Monsey chicken. Just a little more looking revealed several more instances of plagiarism, going back to DovBear's first days of blogging:

TNR's &c. blog, 10/26/04:
WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE?:

If it's in bad taste for John Kerry to out Dick Cheney's openly-gay daughter or for Teresa to momentarily forget Laura Bush had ever held a "real job," then why isn't it in bad taste for Karl Rove to talk about Bill Clinton like he's either an invalid or an inanimate object? Here's what Rove had to say about Clinton's role in the Kerry campaign, according to today's New York Times.

In Davenport, Iowa, where President Bush was campaigning, Karl Rove, the president's chief political adviser, said of the spectacle, "They had to roll Clinton out of the hospital room and onto the campaign trail to help Senator Kerry with his core constituencies that are so weak."


DovBear, 10/31/04:
WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE?

If it's in bad taste for John Kerry to out Dick Cheney's openly-gay daughter or for Teresa to momentarily forget Laura Bush had ever held a 'real job,' then why isn't it in bad taste for Karl Rove to talk about Bill Clinton like he's a house plant? Here's what Rove had to say about Clinton's role in the Kerry campaign, according to the 10/26 New York Times.

"In Davenport, Iowa, where President Bush was campaigning, Karl Rove, the president's chief political adviser, said of the spectacle, 'They had to roll Clinton out of the hospital room and onto the campaign trail to help Senator Kerry with his core constituencies that are so weak.
Screenshot.


Andrew Sullivan, 10/31/04:
But it wasn't the Kerry campaign that launched a direct attack on the other guy's war-medals; or deployed every anti-gay slur known to man in critical races; or accused those who worried about missing munitions of attacking the troops; or implied that a vote for Kerry would mean a nuke going off in a major city.
DovBear, 10/31/04
Well, I guess that's about what you should expect from the campaign that launched a direct attack on the other guy's war-medals; deployed every anti-gay slur known to man in critical races; accused those who worried about missing munitions of attacking the troops; and implied that a vote for Kerry would mean a nuke going off in a major city.
Screenshot.

TNR &c., 9/2/03

PROGRESSIVELY WORSE: Flagrant hypocrisy is pretty standard fare for a Wall Street Journal editorial. (In fact, the entertainment value therein is the best reason to read the page.) Usually, though, the Journal editors have the sense to space out their contradictory propositions.

Usually, but not today. The paper's lead editorial contains the following mystifying passage condemning California's state tax:

Start with the individual income tax, which has six brackets and is steeply progressive. Its top marginal rate of 9.3% is among the nation's highest but, worse, it kicks in at just $38,000 of income. This means that the likes of nurses and janitors already pay to the state a dime of every $1 in higher salary they receive.

Question: If the top rate starts at $38,000, forcing janitors to pay the same rate as millionaires, then how can the tax system be considered "steeply progressive"?

DovBear, 10/27/04:
"Start with [California's] individual income tax, which has six brackets and is steeply progressive. Its top marginal rate of 9.3% is among the nation's highest but, worse, it kicks in at just $38,000 of income. This means that the likes of nurses and janitors already pay to the state a dime of every $1 in higher salary they receive."--The Wall Street Journal editorial page, October 2.

Question: If the top rate starts at $38,000, forcing janitors to pay the same marginal rate as millionaires, then how can the tax system be considered "steeply progressive"?
Screenshot.

Live From Brussels, 11/5/2004:
"Thou Shalt Not Kill" = racist
UPDATES HERE


(via LVB: Tolerantie (1).) In the Netherlands, artist Chris Ripke reacted to the murder on Theo Van Gogh by an islamic fundamentalist by painting a mural with the text "Gij zult niet doden" ("Thou Shalt Not Kill"), one of the ten commandments of the Christian religion.
DovBear, 11/8/2004:
HAS THE NETHERLANDS LOST ITS MIND?

THOU SHALT NOT KILL IS RACIST?

In the Netherlands, artist Chris Ripke reacted to the murder on Theo Van Gogh by an Islamic fundamentalist by painting a mural with the text "Gij zult niet doden" ("Thou Shalt Not Kill").
(Note how our plagiarist faithfully reproduced the incorrect use of "on" instead of "of" in the first sentence.)


World Socialist Website, 3/21/2005:
This from a man who, as governor of Texas, rubber-stamped the execution of 152 prisoners, giving an average of 15 minutes apiece to their death row appeals.
...
The cynical and brutal exploitation of an internal family dispute over the fate of Schiavo,...in order to whip up the most backward, ignorant and intolerant social elements.
DovBear, 3/21/05:
Err on te side of life? Does Mr. McClellan not remember that his boss, as governor of Texas, rubber-stamped the execution of 152 prisoners, giving an average of 15 minutes apiece to their death row appeals? Now this pandering, retrograde moron is preaching that we must "Err on the side of life?"
...
Meanwhile, his phony, war-mongering Congressional colleagues are passing around a memo calling this, "A great political issue,” as they seek to whip up the most backward, ignorant and intolerant elements of our society for the purpose of exploiting a family tragedy for their sordid political purposes.
CBS, 3/15/2005:
The implications of this move are astonishing. Just think about it. Anytime Congress doesn't like the result in a particular case, it could swoop in and call a "do-over," which is essentially what this legislation represents. ... If this law is declared valid, no decision in any state court in the country will be immune from Congressional second-guessing. It would throw out of whack the entire concept of separation of powers....It truly will be fascinating to see how federal court judges react to this-- whether they simply bow down to this end-run or whether they back up their state-court colleagues....Not liking a particular result in a case that has been litigated fully and completely by a court with competent jurisdiction, Congress now has said that the game must be re-done with new rules that heavily favor one side over the other.
DovBear, 3/21/2005
The implications of this are astonishing. Just think about it. Anytime Congress doesn't like the result in a particular case, it could swoop in and call a "do-over." If this law is declared valid, no decision in any state court in the country will be immune from Congressional second-guessing. It would throw out of whack the entire concept of separation of powers. It truly will be fascinating to see how federal court judges react to this-- whether they simply bow down to this end-run or whether they back up their state-court colleagues....Let's sum this up: (a) A case has been litigated fully and completely by a court with competent jurisdiction. (b)Congress now has said that the game must be re-done with new rules that heavily favor one side over the other.
Democracy Cell Project, 3/13/2005:
those who speak up in disagreement are forcibly removed from sight before anyone can hear what they say.

That is what the White House is calling “A Conversation on Strengthening Social Security”
DovBear, 3/14/2005:
Why does the White House call it “A Conversation on Strengthening Social Security" when those who speak up in disagreement are forcibly removed from sight before anyone can hear what they said?

So there you have it. For those keeping score at home, those are 7 more cases of plagiarism. And frankly, there may be more. Lots more. And until each one is identified and fixed in a way that clearly indicates that the attribution was added after the fact, DovBear's sins remain blood red. And to all those that have been attempting to minimize DovBear's misdeeds, focusing instead on the imagined motives of his accuser, you stand accused. You are always the first to react in disgust to the unfortunate tendency by many Orthodox Jews to brush off critical press scrutiny of wrongdoing in our community as the work of "the anti-semitic goyishe media." Yet this is exactly what you are doing here -- focusing on the accuser rather than the sins of the accused.

One last point. How do my findings square with Renegade Rebbetzin's findings? Is the program she used faulty? Or is something else at play? Only DovBear and Renegade Rebbetzin can answer that.

(Additional screenshots available upon request.)

265 comments:

1 – 200 of 265   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Do your self a favor, get a pdf printer driver, and save as a pdf "all 31 pages of archives"

Anonymous said...

I take back the shut the fuck up. That was priceless.

Blog Reader said...

DovBear got his large audience because of what was perceived as his good writing. He is obviously a pliagirising sham artists and people should treat him as they would anyone else. Just because they like him is no excuse and they would hnot tolerate it from ithers as well.

Renegade Rebbetzin said...

It is quite possible that I screwed up in my use of Copyscape. DB took my word for it that the blog was clean after my Copyscape purge. If I misunderstood something that Copyscape was giving me, or if I missed something on the blog, that is my doing, not DB's. I did my best with Copyscape because I knew DB was counting on my results. Apparently my skills do not lie with Copyscape interpretation.

Anonymous said...

Dovbear's next answer, it wasn't me it was Cousin Oliver.

Anonymous said...

Renegade, why is Dovie still changing posts if your results showed there was no more plagiarism?

Anonymous said...

Best anti-DovBear blog EVAR!

Shmarya said...

Some of these new examples are not plagiarism. Some are, but are most likely due to sloppy writing (and perhaps broken links – if text was incorrectly linked, Google and Copyscape won't see it).

I just ran DB's Oct. 2004 archive on Copyscape and did not find the examples DW found. I tried the TNR example with Google and did find that, but again, Copyscape missed it.

All this being said, DB needs to fix any plagiarim that remains. I'm sure he will.

To be clearer, DB made a good-faith effort to repair the problems. Copyscape screwed up.

Anonymous said...

What Dovie also doesn't know is that there exists a cached copy of his blog from a few months back, before he started his whitewash efforts.

Its only a matter of time before someone finds it, and starts doing real analysis on it, with quality software.

Anonymous said...

Shmarya, your turn to just shut the fuck up. You sound like a zombie ("sloppy writing sloppy writing sloppy writing sloppy writing sloppy writing sloppy writing"). The same stupid bogus arguments over and over again. Dovbear plagiarized. Maybe it would have gone away if you hadn't written your stupid sniveling conspiracy theory of a post. But you just had to do it. Didn't you? Give it up. Robert Avrechs stupid partisan diatribe did as much to help dovbear as your stupid partisan defense did to bury him.

Anonymous said...

Shmarya, do you believe that DovBear ever intentionally plagiarized? Or was it all "sloppiness"?

Anonymous said...

Dovie is just as sloppy as Sandy Berger. It's just a sloppy mistake.

Sultan Knish said...

so dovbear recruited others to blog on his blog and he still needed to plagirize to keep adding new content

sad

Shmarya said...

I think most of you have no idea what it's like to run a popular blog (i.e., a lot of page views, *not* like yours) and work and have a family as well.

I think DB rushed his posts, was sloppy and *sometimes* plagiarized. I do not think most of that plagiarism was intentional.

He admited his mistakes and set out to repair them. He allowed DovWeasel to guest post, and he asked his readers to send him any questionable posts found. On top of that, he paid for Copyscape and had another blogger go over his archives.

What you excoriate him for is relying on Copyscape. As I noted above, Copyscape failed Ren Reb, and it failed me as well when I checked an archive page of DB's.

Now, the Weasal could have emailed DovBear, told him he found more problem posts. He could have run the Copyscape himself to check Ren Reb's account. He did neither.

Instead, he *assumed* Dov Bear was *hiding* these problem posts, *assumed* he was secretly correcting some (when DB had openly said he would correct any problem post brought to his attention), and *assumed* every instance he found was malicious.

You call yourselves Orthodox Jews. But you do not follow the halakha.

As for my *assumption* about the Weasel's intent, I take back my assertion that he used plagiarism software.

Once DB owned up to the problem, the correct response by Weasel or anyone else would have been to notify him of these additional finds and allow him to correct them.

Instead, the Weasel simply attacked, like Avrech attacked and like many of you attacked.

As bad as plagiarism is, your behavior is just as bad. Think about that.

Anonymous said...

dovweasel is an idiot with no life.

Shmarya said...

Original Source:

"During the first Gulf War in 1991, PA Arabs cheered Saddam's missile attacks on Israel, chanting, "Beloved Saddam, strike Tel Aviv," as the Scud missiles flew overhead."

Sultan Knish:

"During the first Gulf War in 1991, the Palestinians cheered Saddam’s missile attacks on Israel, chanting “Beloved Saddam, strike Tel Aviv,” as the Scud missiles flew overhead."

It's posted as a quote, but with no attributed source. This is a form of plagiarism. Of course, one could argue this is merely sloppy writing and posting …

Pot. Kettle. Black.

And that find, my friend took all of 30 seconds.

baalbatish said...

Why are you wasting your time with reviewing DovBear's blog? It was so obvious that he was cutting and pasting, who thought otherwise? The guy can't spell, has an agenda and at the same time his posts are articulate. Didn't add up.
I don't think he has any influence out there. Don't waste your life.

Sultan Knish said...

plagiarism = claiming someone else's work as your own

quoting a news source without attribution = just being sloppy

Anonymous said...

Yes, explain to me WHY this is such a big deal? DovBear is a blogger, he doesn't write for a newspaper, his blog is not a college paper - so what?

Anonymous said...

You've gone too far Weasel. Your first posts scared DovBear straight. He apologized, fixed the posts, including at least one you didn't find, and he asked someone else to review his blog. He also asked the blogosphere to let him know if there were other posts with problems.

What you've done here is stomp on his genuine attempts to do teshuva. This unmasks you as someone interested in something other than "professionalism and integrity."

David Rutstein said...

Uh does anyone else think the anonymous posts sound a lot like this Shmarya guy too?

kishke said...

"DB took my word for it that the blog was clean after my Copyscape purge."

What do you mean, "he took your word for it?" It's pretty clear that he knew it wasn't clean. Your check was just window dressing.

kishke said...

Shmarya wrote: "He admited his mistakes"; "DB owned up to the problem."

What are you talking about, you dunce? He was exposed; the plagiarism was revealed for all to see; he had no choice but to admit.

And of course you totally ignore the evidence that he's busy sanitizing the archives. Just a sloppy mistake. Sure.

Anonymous said...

I find it unbelievable that DB didn't know that there were more pliagarized posts.

Plus, why are we bothering to say that these new finds aren't pliagarism. DB's post itself says that DW found more instances of plagiarism.

Dovbear = Dovbaby said...

Anyone notice how Shitmaya can't help but to fault Orthodox Jews for Dovbaby's lies.

"You call yourselves Orthodox Jews. But you do not follow the halakha."

canonist's latest said...

A Little Bit More About a Lot More DovBear Plagiarism:

http://www.canonist.com/?p=1287

Shmarya said...

DB said as soon as he was caught that he would fix any post he found or that others brought to his attention. You call that "sanitizing" his archives. How foolish can you get?

And, SK, call your mistake "sloppy posting." I don't care. But I do know that you're criticizing DB while at the same time making very similar mistakes yourself.

kishke said...

"DB said as soon as he was caught that he would fix any post he found"

That's precisely the problem. He's "fixing" the posts so that they won't be discovered, and he can continue claiming that there were only those few that DW found. Instead of "fixing" posts, let him come clean on how many there actually were. So far he's admitted to nothing that hasn't been discovered and revealed by others, and is busily erasing evidence of further misdeeds.

Sultan Knish said...

There's nothing similar. I'm not taking credit for someone else's work. He was.

Anonymous said...


And, SK, call your mistake "sloppy posting." I don't care. But I do know that you're criticizing DB while at the same time making very similar mistakes yourself.


listen, i hate the knish as much as the next guy. i hate him more than i hate db. but his plagiarism is far diferent that dbs.

Sultan Knish said...

again for the chairs in the back

"plagiarism - the act of appropriating the literary composition of another author, or excerpts, ideas, or passages therefrom, and passing the material off as one's own creation."

the above is a dictionary definition quoted but not attributed. It is not plagirism. However if I were to claim it as my own work, as DovBear did it would be.

Anonymous said...

Weasel, what made you suspect plagiarism in the first place?

Shmarya said...

So you want a list, Kishke? Weasel?

This is a new demand, made after the fact, a weak after DB publicly apologized and said he would fix any additional posts brought to his attention.

In other words, you blame him for doing now what he said he would do a week ago when you did not object.

I never cease to be shocked by the behavor of Orthodox Jews. Teshuva means nothing to you. Neither does honesty. This was simply about getting a blogger you dislike. It was never about truth or honesty or plagiarism.

Shmarya said...

Sultan Knish–

Try this:

Quotation: using someone’s words. When you quote, place the passage you are using in quotation marks, and document the source according to a standard documentation style.

The following example uses the Modern Language Association’s style:

Example: According to Peter S. Pritchard in USA Today, “Public schools need reform but they’re irreplaceable in teaching all the nation’s young” (14).

kishke said...

Shmarya, you are such a dimwit. The point is not "fixing" the posts; nobody gives a hoot if the posts remain unfixed forever. What this is about is DB's credibiity, or lack of it, and fixing posts cannot restore that. What might help would be if he would own up to all the plagiarism he has done, but instead he's busy sanitizing the archives (oh, I mean "fixing" them), in an attempt to conceal the full extent of his dishonesty.

DovWeasel said...

Shmarya, do you know what "teshuva" means? Read the Rambam. It's not just about dramatic, public self-immolation. It means coming clean. To date, he has only come clean with respect to the plagiarism identified by me and by Ren Reb. We know that during this time he was correcting other posts (who knows how many) that hadn't been identified. Now you can call that teshuva or you can call that an effort to hide the extent of his wrongdoing. Consider this:

Aside from never disclosing these other changes, he also did not indicate in the changed posts that they were updated. In contrast, the changes he made to posts that were publicly revealed by me or Ren Reb were so identified.

Think of DovBear as a public company that discovers its financial statements were wrong. If they decide to fix their financials and only reveal half of the changes they were making, would that be viewed as an effort to fully come clean? Of course not. It would be construed as an effort to minimize the scope of their wrongdoing to the public. And rightfully so.

This is exactly what is going on here. I can't psychoanalyze DovBear, and I will grant that DovBear regreted doing what he did. But his surrepitious changing of posts while parading Ren Reb's "seal of approval" around tells me that his motives were as much about PR than anything else. All this while people like you and others were arguing his innocence (in part) based on the small number of instances of plagiarism. By any standard of honesty, remiaing quiet while others are making arguments on your behalf you know to be false is wrong and to characterize these very same acts of "teshuva" is ridiculous.

Finally, Shamrya, you say that "Weasel could have emailed DB." Right, Shmarya. And you could have emailed or contacted any of the hundreds of Haredim you vilify on your blog daily and ask them whether the assumptions of bad faith regarding their motives about anything from disagreeing with Zomet's halchik decisions or filing a complaint against a restaurant owner from mistreatment is justified. But of course you don't.

You are a hypocrite.

Sultan Knish said...

Shmarya this is lame even for you. The issue is taking someone else's material and passing it off as your own, not in university standards for citations in papers. Your attempt to distract from DovBear's plagiarism by going after me has failed miserably.

DovBear stole other people's work, passed it off as his own and financially profited from doing so through his blog banners and solicitations for money.

He didn't just plagiarize, he profited financially from his theft and should frankly make restitution to those writers he stole from in the form of a percentage of his blog profits from ads and donations.

Now that would be teshuva.

Shmarya said...

Kishke –

DB said PUBLICLY almost 10 days ago that he world fix any post brought tpo his attention. He apparently (according to you) fixed one and that brought your charge of sanitizing (your term) his archives.

What I said about teshuva stands. You don't know the meaning of the word. Neither does the Weasel.

As for Sultan Knish, learn. Using quotes without attribution – even when placing them in quotation marks – is a form of plagiarism. You don't know this? You just learned. Why not clean up your archives? But, please announce the number of posts you're fixing and their exact url. just so we can check up on you. After all, if it's good enough for you to demand (after the fact) for DB, it's cetainly good enough for us to demand it of you a priori.

Shmarya said...

Knish –

You want him to divide the hundred or so dollars? Based on what formula?

DB doesn't make enough from his blog to pay for his ISP and connection, let alone to make a profit. Of course, you know that.

Will you be sharing your blog income with those whose quotes you regularly used without attribution? I didn't think so.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Shmarya said...

"Finally, Shamrya, you say that "Weasel could have emailed DB." Right, Shmarya. And you could have emailed or contacted any of the hundreds of Haredim you vilify on your blog daily and ask them whether the assumptions of bad faith regarding their motives about anything from disagreeing with Zomet's halchik decisions or filing a complaint against a restaurant owner from mistreatment is justified. But of course you don't."

Actually, I have regular contact with many people in the haredi world, including some leaders, even some you know. I check my sources, I give haredim opportunity to rebut, and I allow them to guest post (although the haredi refuse to for reasons like the Internet ban).

Further, Weasel, I'm not anonymous. You are. I stand behind what I write and post. You hide behind a veil of anonymity.

In short, you're a coward.

Shmarya said...

And, again. DB said he would correct any posts brought to his attention. He said this PUBLICLY about 10 days ago. NO ONE then asked him to make a list of these corrections and publish them. Not you, not Kishke, not Knish. So DB sets out and corrects evey post he can find. Kishke finds (apparently) one correction not in your original list or Ren Reb's. He – and you, and others – sceam "SANITZING ARCHIVES!"

Bullshit. If you wanted a public list, you should have asked for one 10 days ago. You should have asked for one when DB let you guest post. But you did not do so.

The problem here is yours and Kishke's and Knish's.

Now, Weasel, what about the plagiarism of your friend Sultan Knish? All those unattributed quotes? What are your demands of him? Of course, your silence here speaks volumes about your intentions. Sad.

Anonymous said...

Shitmaya's Girl friend, "Dr." Hella Winston published another article that is disgusting, misleading, demeaning, and full of outright lies, about Orthodox Jews. It's been linked to on other blogs, so I won't put a link here. The only honesty Shitmaya cares about, is when it's comming from Orthodox Jews. Maybe Shitmaya thinks DB is not Orthodox, or maybe all that counts, is when DB attacks the Haredi establishment.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

DovWeasel said...

Further, Weasel, I'm not anonymous. You are. I stand behind what I write and post. You hide behind a veil of anonymity.

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? So is DovBear!!! Is he a coward too??

DB said PUBLICLY almost 10 days ago that he world fix any post brought tpo his attention. He apparently (according to you) fixed one and that brought your charge of sanitizing (your term) his archives. What I said about teshuva stands. You don't know the meaning of the word. Neither does the Weasel.

To quote an almost President, DovBear doesn't get to decide what teshuva is. Teshuva requires coming clean whatever DovBear said he would do. And we know in at least one case he didn't come clean and have no way of knowing how many more.

Let's review. I initially found 10-12 (let's not quibble about the numbers) cases of plagiarism. You basically garaunteed that this was the tip of the iceberg. It turns out that you were wrong. Now it seems that in at least one case he fixed posts without admitting it. You are assuming it's the only one. I tend to doubt it. If you continue going out on a limb for DovBear, you will fall off.

Anonymous said...

Shmarya, you continue to make yourslef look like an idiot. DovBear plastered his blog with the RenReb seal of approval at the same time he was correcting plagiarozed posts. Do you think we're stupid? Do you think that doesn't read as pure and unadulterated dishonesty to us, his readership?

If he had skipped the idiotic RenReb post maybe I wouldn't feel like this was such a big deal. But he crowed about RenReb's finding nothing of interest (a flat-out lie). He should have shut his mouth. Then he wouldn't have looked like the liar that he is.

yeshivaguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sultan Knish said...

Lame, very lame Shmarya and desperate

Let's review again. DovBear stole other people's work and passed it off as his own. He didn't fail to use proper university citations, HE PASSED IT OFF AS HIS OWN. That's geneiva. (Do you get it now?)

Considering that he runs multiple ads on a high traffic blog along with donation requests I doubt very much that it's not enough to pay for his connection.


But isn't it ironic that you're going into the same cover up mode as all those figures in the frum world you condemn and write about?

Instead of actually working for reform, you go off on a campaign against all of DovBear's critics, distort the truth, try to slander them, use utterly hypocritical arguments and when that fails shout that DovBear has already done Tesuvah and no one has any right to criticize him.

Sound familiar? Think Kolko. Think Rubashkin. Think Tendler. You obviously learned a lot from writing about them because you're acting exactly like them. And it's getting you nowhere.

Sad isn't it.

Maybe you should find a better way to spend your time than engaging in a coverup for DovBear and using the same discredited tactics against anyone who speaks critically of him.

Shmarya said...

Ummm, let's see:

1. Dov Bear admitted doing wrong. He apologized and corrected any post brought to his attention. No one asked for a list of these corrections until the Weasel decided very late in the game that such a public accounting was necessary.

And how did the Weasel deal with this? He wrote a post titled "Now THAT'S a Skan-DAL!". He didn't email DB and ask him to comply or post asking for a public accounting. And by the Weasel's own admission, we're talking about 1 post DB corrected in "secret."

Your behavior is wrong. Period.

2. Sultan Knish – I'm not covering up for DB. Let's see if you can process: 1. DB got caught. 2. DB admitted his mistakes. 3. DB corrected his mistakes to the best of his ability. 4. DB accepted full responsibility for his mistakes.

Now, compare that to Rubashkin, say. The only similarity is that both DB and Rubashkin were caught doing wrong, Points 2 through 4? Rubashkin has NOT admitted his mistakes, has NOT corrected his mistakes (except when forced to by the US Government) and has NOT accepted responsibility for those mistakes.

You all whine about hilkhot teshuva. DB has fulfilled the requirements of teshuva. Rubashkin has not. Neither has Tendler. Neither has Kolko.

Why not spend the next few days cleaning up ("sanitizing") your archives? Again, using quotes without attribution (even when placed in quotation marks) is a type of plagiarism. Go learn.

kishke said...

Shmarya, you have painted yourself into a corner, but, as usual, are too pigheaded to admit it. Can we call you Nifong?

Fed Up in Blogland said...

is that shmarya guy related to dovbear or something? his stuff really reminds me of the jewish press articles on tendler

never admit the truth, never listen to what anyone else has to say, just keep on repeating how great dovbear is and how evil we are

yeah right

Mindy said...

Everyone STOP attacking Dovie!!!

Dovie never hurt a fly! So what if he took some other people's articles. They weren't using them anyway. I bet they never even noticed!

Everyone is being so nasty and mean to him. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Dovie is a Tzaddik. He blogs all day to help people.

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Nancy said...

He takes my articles all the time.
but those come out of my underwear drawer so its ok as long as he enjoys it.

David Rutstein said...

What's interesting about some of these examples is that they show it's no accident.

Instead Dovbear made minor revisions to other people's work before putting them up. He knew what he was doing all along and was trying to hide it a little by changing a word here and there.

DovWeasel said...

Shmarya, you still have not responded to my point regarding DovBear not having come clean. I repeat, we know that he changed at least one post and was being sneaky about it by not admitting to it, making no notation in the post that it was changed after the fact in contrast to the plagiarized posts that were publically revealed by others and being silent while others cited the numbers of cases of plagiarism as a way to minimize DovBear's guilt.

Your point about it being "only one" post that was changed without any admission or notation is a weak one because as we all know there could be others. This one happened to be found by chance because another blogger had an old version in his cache. You are merely relying on DovBear's good faith and nothing else.

Shmarya said...

Weasel –

It was an rss feed, I believe, not a chache. Anyway, DB said he would fix posts. If you wanted an accounting of that, you should have asked 10 days ago, not after the fact, and not in the way you did.

shmarya lives in a dream world said...


It was an rss feed, I believe, not a chache. Anyway, DB said he would fix posts. If you wanted an accounting of that, you should have asked 10 days ago, not after the fact, and not in the way you did.


Yes, he said he mentioned offhand that he would fix posts. Then he went and did so, all the while proclaiming his blog's Renreb seal of approval. Pretty Weaselly to me.

Shmarya, don't make me laugh. First you spend weeks defending DovBear's indisputable plagiarism as "sloppy" and "inadvertent". (I have trouble calling splicing together sections from two different letters with some changes in between to be a problem of sloppiness, but I digress). Then, when that argument stops working because the plagiarism is proven to be (to quote DovWeasel) just the "tip of the iceberg", you talk about Teshuvah, and how the Weasel had a responsibiity to confront DovBear before posting. (Why did he? I don't see any other bloggers, including and especially yourslef and DovBear, asking the subjects of their ridicule for comment before excoriating them.)

It doesn't look to me like a man who is frantically changing plagiarized posts has confronted his sin in any fashion.

Shmarya said...

Really?

1. Coypscape failed. DB had no way to know this. Neither did Ren Reb.

2. I said many, perhaps most of DB's plagiarism was due to sloppy posting. I never said all of it was.

3. I actually interview many people I post about. A short list: several PETA leaders; Rabbis Shear-Yashuv Coher, Kohn, Genack, Belsky, Eidelstein, and several more; Dr. Temple Grandin; the USDA's FSIS spokesman; representatives of the meat industry and the food service industry; USDA Food Safety Inspectors Union heads; amny others. Most of those interviews are posted on my site. (Rubashkin turned down several requests for an interview; his spokesperson is quoted several times by me.) Etc., etc.

4. Again, if you wanted a list of problematic posts, the time to ask for it was 10 days ago, not now. DB said he would fix posts. If you had asked then, he would have made your list. You didn't ask, and then blame him after the fact for fixing (as far as we know) ONE post. Why you didn't simply ask him is beyond me.

kishke said...

You think he would have provided such a list? Great! So what's stopping him from providing it now?

Anonymous said...


1. Coypscape failed. DB had no way to know this. Neither did Ren Reb.


I guess Dovie should have stuck to the method he was using to seek and destroy his posts up until he handed the torch over to Renreb. He seemed to be finding his old examples of plagiarism just fine.

Shmarya said...

Kishke –

Why don't you email him and ask?

anonymous –

You're not making sense. Copyscape failed. The Weasel found three posts using Google. Db (apparently) corrected another on his own.

Frank said...

He can plagerize me anytime. I dont give a whooping crane.
I have a crush on rebetzin the girly blogger. I love her suggestive posts

kishke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
kishke said...

"Why don't you email him and ask?"

Hey, what is this? Here you are telling us exactly what DB would have done had we only asked nicely and at the right time. You claim to know all his thinking on this matter; what he would have done; how sorry he is, how genuine his teshuva is; etc. But punkt this one thing you don't know! What a coincidence.

Anonymous said...

Shmarya your gesticulations are nothing but amusing. You look like an idiot.

Shmarya said...

Kishke –

I know what he would have done. My point was for you to behave like a mentch.

kishke said...

Okay, so if you know his mind, tell us, why doesn't he post a list of the changes he's been making (or at least note the changes on the "fixed" posts)?

Shmarya said...

If you had sent him an email asking for that, he would have done it. And, as it now stands, we have no proof DB changed a post without making the change public. (Again, that one post could have been a repair of a broken link or even a typo, for all we know.)

Why not send the guy an email, explain your position and ask him to do whatever you think is right?

kishke said...

What makes you think I haven't been in touch with him?

Shmarya said...

Are you? If so, when did you contact him about this issue?

Anonymous said...

Shmarya, you just go on and on, don't you? Enough. You don't have a leg to stand on on this. Why don't you stop pestering Kishke and start telling us all about the Charedi rabbis you have a correspondence with before you post. How manytimes did you speak to Rav Elyashiv, for example? Rav Metzger? The settler in the video you maligned? The women from the chinese restaurant in Boston that you were so anti-semitic to? Did you email Rabbi without a cause privately before you caled him Rabbi Without a Clue? Just checking.

kishke said...

I exchanged several emails with him on this and related issues last week.

Shmarya said...

Kishke –

And in those emails you asked for a list?

anonymous –

I know it's often difficult for OJs to understand, but, try to process here, LOOK AT MY WEBSITE AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.

I have a short list of Rubashkin interviews on my left sidebar. i also have sources w/in haredi leadership and close to it that I speak with.

As for speaking with Rabbi Elyashiv, that is only possible if one goes to Jerusalem and, even then, most people who want to see him are not allowed to. But of course, you know that. But I did have contact with his representatives. In that contact I confirmed Rabbi Elyashiv's backing of Metzger and his knowledge of Metzger's behavior and the rabbinute's censure.

kishke said...

We discussed his surreptitious cleaning up of the archives.

kishke said...

I should add that from what he answered me it was clear that he was not prepared to identify his changes to the archives.

Anonymous said...

DovWeasel, I found some more stuff on DB's blog, how can I email you?

Anonymous said...

Can someone post Dov Weasel's email address?

kishke said...

Anon: Just post it yourself right here.

DovWeasel said...

dovweasel@gmail.com

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Let's face it, Dov Bear is an evil, childish, thieving am ha'oretz whose "questions" on religon bely such ignorance that it his Jewishness is questionable.

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>>Dovie never hurt a fly! So what if he took some other people's articles. They weren't using them anyway. I bet they never even noticed!

He hurt me. He insulted many. He never bothered to think twice or even ask for mechila.

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